A snow tax! Can you believe it? As if we haven’t suffered enough this winter. Talk about adding insult to injury.
I only heard about it a few minutes ago, but right off the top of my head, I have three problems with Mayor Larry’s proposed $50 per household snow tax.
1) If I’m not mistaken, we would have a snow removal SURPLUS leftover from previous years if Mayor Larry hadn’t decided to spend it to finance his campaign promise of a tax freeze. How ironic that now he has to slap an extra tax on us to make up for a snow removal budget shortfall.
2) This tax sets a precedent that should make us all very uneasy. The City should be able to manage the budget well enough to handle normal fluctuations in weather or other conditions.They shouldn’t be permitted to slap us with extra taxes because it’s snowier than usual or hotter than usual or because they had to pay more than usual for police services or anything else. It’s called budgeting.
3) Assuming such an extraordinary tax is necessary, why assess it on the basis of households? Why not assess it on the basis of car ownership? Why should I – as a single person without a car – pay the same tax as two married people with two cars?
Another thing – completely unrelated to the muncipal government – but I’ve already absorbed additional costs due to the extra snow. I pay $180 a year for snow plowing of the common lane and parking area. This year, each household has been asked to pay $330-$380 instead of $180. Considering I don’t have a car, I feel I’m already paying more than my share. (And while I understand and sympathize with the small contractors who do the snow removal, I can’t help but wonder why we weren’t offered a partial refund last winter, when they only had to plow four times.)
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A small comment with regards to point 3. Although you are not a vehicle owner, you are a transit user, thus ultimately still a user of the roadways and as responsible as the rest of us for upkeep. Admittedly, OC Transpo is probably trying to figure out how to gouge you as well for their extra costs.
Susan, I wouldn’t expect to be exempted from any tax; however, I think it should be assessed fairly. I do not use the roadways as extensively as a two-car family does, not by a long shot.
It better snow like this for years to come to make good use of this new tax.
I agree with the your points on the snow tax, though perhaps a tax per household assumes that each household has similar needs (e.g. that most or all will need or want: food delivered to grocery stores; electricity, phone and cable restored if lines go down; buses to take people to work; heating fuel delivered to your home as required; in-home nursing care to you those who are ill; police, ambulance, and or fire engines in emergency situations; and/or taxis for those who use them).
Our condo pays per event of snow removal: more snow, more cost, no snow, no cost (we live in BC). Perhaps you could renegotiate your terms next year?
I don’t blame you for being pissed… that’s outrageous
Thank you, Zoom. I am with you. How can we bring this guy down?
That’s a difficult one. I see the points people have made about needing the roads plowed so everyone can provide themselves with the basics, etc, but it does seem odd to have to introduce a new tax to do it. Shouldn’t the city have an emergency fund to cover such events? Even if not, I would worry about such a tax becoming permanent, especially because half of the $50 would probably be eaten up by the cost of paperwork and billing. Just think of the beurocratic machinery necessary to implement such an extraordinary tax. Would it really be worth the time and resources, especially as a one off?
Hmmmm.. I agree with your principals… I think the cost of snow removal is due to poor planning. How many times have you seen two graders coming down the same street, while yours is un-plowed ? Or listen to the blade scape against pavement (on a bus route of course) while your still buried ? Or watching the plow go by and wondering why his blade was 2 feet from the curb to start ? Bus routes are one thing, but all of us as the SAME tax payers deserve the same level of service. Sure, I agree with doing transit routes first, But then after one pass do our part of the bargain ! We all pay the same taxes, and deserve the same level of service ! Our sidewalks remained un-plowed for three days while watching them clean off the bus stops (for the second time) Bus routes should get the first pass…. but then move on !
you have my empathy. makes me glad I live in a sunny country
I agree with you that Larry O’Brien got in on a false promise of not raising taxes, and should have had a surplus from last year to cover at least partially this year’s horribly large dump of snow, but … I sure wish I lived on a public road.
If I had been paying by the snow fall this year I would have paid about $2000; last year, about $200.
Because I pay by contract, I paid $400 both years. (I get a very good rate from a neighbour.)
When we got the last two snowfalls I gave him an additional $100. Until then I figured that it should all even out over the years.
That covers half my road so a distance of 1/4 kilometre plus a space to park my car.
In addition of course I pay taxes to cover snow removal on public roadways.
If your reasoning regarding the $50 per household were followed, only parents should pay school taxes, transit riders the portion of municipal taxes that goes to public transit, and the sick the portion that goes to health care. Then we would live in a country that doesn’t believe in tax funded safety nets.
valid points everyone. I’m just looking forward to next year when there’s a surplus and we all have our $50 returned to us…HA!
The prediction for next year has been average temperatures but above average snowfall again.
I was annoyed too when I read your post last night. Another $50… damn! As I was turning off the computer I saw that someone had dropped off a flyer. The condo manager is kindly informing us that we will have to pay an extra fee for snow removal in one lump sum, or the condo fees will be raised(again!?. So, I’m with you Zoom – and since I manage my budget for emergencies, I will be able to pay.
The only comment made here that really caught my attention was Aggie’s war cry: “How can we bring this guy down?”
Where do I join up?
In my town, the snow removal is part of the budget and if there’s a shortfall one year, the overall property tax goes up the next year. All our services are paid for (except sewer) from the property taxes collected. I have seen my property taxes go up over 500 percent in 20 years. Are the services better. Not really. I do recognize that the cost of things is going up, especially now with our economy is an quasi recession but my salary is not going up commensurately. I eat less and drive less and go out less.
That’s crazy! There was barely any snow last year didn’t they save that money for a rainy/snowy day? Oh they didn’t huh? How is that our problem?
I’m on the bring him down train! What should/could we do?
Oma, I definitely do not think that only people with children should pay for education or that only the sick should pay for health care. I am a strong supporter of fair taxation and I despise politicians who campaign on promises of tax freezes. (I despise them even more after they break that promise, as they inevitably do.)
However. This tax seems patently unfair. And part of the reason for that is that it’s a flat tax being charged per household. It’s not calculated according to property value, the way other property taxes are. Nor is it calculated according to income the way other taxes are.
I’m expected to pay twice as much of this tax as a rich married person living in a mansion in Rockliffe.
This kind of flat tax grab is exactly what you get with conservative governments, expect lots more of them.
People have short memories. They forget the nickel and diming when it is nickel and dimes to them.
Besides being unfair to those who are not abusing the roads, on fixed incomes, poor, old, etc it is just plain LAZY – they could base it on property taxes, income, # of cars but that would require looking at those things before sending out bills.
To those that feel those without cars are getting some kind of subsidized existence using public transit – two comments – the poorest out there can’t even afford the bus and walk almost all the time. Plenty of others walk almost all the time just because. Cars are a HUGE burden on a city during this kind of snow dump and the rest of the time too! Why do you think the municipality encourages commuters to use public transit and park & rides?
When I heard this on the news, my first thought was “I bet Zoom is going to blog about this”. This is really one of the most absurd things I’ve ever heard — so every time the city incurs an unexpected expense, they’re going to pass the hat around? Is there going to be a “Mayor Larry’s Extraordinary Legal Fees” tax??
The $50 load of snow…
We’re still sorting out whether the $50 surcharge the mayor wants to plump up the snow-clearing budget…
I got this information from Councillor Diane Holmes’ office a few months ago:
The total public cost (not user cost) per passenger trip:
Car driver: $2.50
Transit user: $1.76
Cyclist: $0.24
Pedestrian $0.10
(source 2003 “Costs of Travel Report†Delphi/MCR for City of Ottawa)
Thanks for the figures Zoom, I saw a table like this years ago when I lived in Toronto and the difference between car and transit was even wider (bigger city?)
Well, you’re right about it being a snow job tax. I wonder when they will implement the Stanley Cup Playoff surtax to cover the cost for the extra police?
What’s funny is that I remembered seeing the numbers a few months ago but couldn’t remember where I’d seen them. I googled them and found them right here on knitnut.net.
Anyway, I walk to work and take the bus home, so my total is $1.86 per day compared to a $5.00 driver.
Exactly Blake. It’ll be a pretty slippery slope if we let them get away with this one. Larry will have his hand in our pockets every time the City incurs some expense it didn’t anticipate. And make no mistake: the City should have anticipated this one. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that some winters are snowier than others.
You are right. I hadn’t thought about it being a flat tax rather than based on income or property value.
Funny how the city slickers have no objection with the outlying communities of tax payers having to subsidize things they will never or rarely use — like that concert hall thing that looks like it will die.
But when the subsidy goes the other way, why that’s not fair, is it.
The only “truely fair” way to avoid these problems would be for everyone to pay only what their usage cost the public purse. But that isn’t canadian, so we have subsidies in various directions for various things.
I would be livid – it sounds like something our mayor (David Miller) would try and pull. I hate paying for services that suddenly rise in cost when they are actually needed. Kinda like insurance. Insult to injury indeed.
And in answer to the previous comment, rememebr that city slickers pay road taxes on highways that are ravaged by millions of automobiles communting from outlying areas every day while we walk or take public transit…
This winter has also created some record-setting potholes on the roads. Come springtime, is Mayor Larry going to tell us we have to pay an extra ‘surcharge’ for road maintenance this year?
As someone who also does not own a car, I shouldn’t have to pay the same rate for a major reason:
I use sidewalks much more than I use the roads and sidewalk clearance nowhere near matches the road clearance. When we get clean, dry sidewalks at the same rate we get clean, dry roads, I will consider the fairness of this.
I agree with David Mackintosh. I live in Kanata and use OC Transpo to get to work, bypassing downtown entirely. I live on a court, so my street is plowed last and only once. This year, several of my neighbours got stuck just trying to get out of the court. Our snow is just pilled up on our lawns. Downtown, it’s plowed, blown and then dumped. I go by Bayview everyday and that pile is getting enormous. Why should I pay for that? would be something that I could think. In the end, I don’t think there is a way to fairly split this, someone always ends up paying more. Fortunately, I have the means to do so, others will not be as fortunate and a $50 surcharge will hit them hard.
All that said, I can’t believe that Larry is throwing this out. Maybe he should stop raiding the candy jar in a vain attempt to keep taxes at zero. I am looking forward to his retirement! Cheers.
When politicians throw around numbers out of the blue, like this $50 thing, it’s generally to stun the public into accepting a lower number. The problem is the deficit is real and will need to be fixed so someone will have to pay higher taxes (user fees, tolls, whatever) or Other services will have to be cut or there’ll have to be more private investment into areas traditionally owned and operated by Cities.
I think it’s ridiculous. My street has still not been plowed. I cannot see to back out of my driveway, and if a fire broke out on my street it would just be chaos – because the “street” is too narrow. (and, idiots are still parking on it…)
Bah. No tax. Get Stuffed “Mayor Lar”
I recognize that we have had a great deal of snow during the last storm, and decisions have been made as to which roads/streets need priority clearance. It has been almost a week and a half since the snowfall and our “Dead End Street†is barely passable. I would question the wisdom of why some streets have been cleared before ours has, however, they must have a good reason for their decision!?
We have on our street a group home for developmentally disabled adults, last week the Para Transpo bus that picks-up and drops-off at this group home was stuck on our street and no one could go by as the road was completely blocked off for a couple of hours.
Of similar importance, we have a couple of very elderly citizens (90+ years old) that live at the end of the dead end street next to the Queensway. If an emergency vehicle needed to arrive, it would have been impossible due to the snow.
I disagree with dead end streets being cleared of snow removal last. We only have one exit and if occurrences take place as I have mentioned above, good luck with the safety and security of the residents on our street.
The Mayor has announced a possible new “snow tax” for each home owner, if that were to take place I would like a few things to occur, that my dead end street be considered for snow removal much sooner than later and that this is a “one time tax” and not a permanent tax.
Our street has cars parked all day long by people leaving their vehicles and going to work some where else in the neighbourhood. If the parking violation officers would come by on a daily basis we could reduce the parking on the street and help pay off/down the snow debt.
From the Ottawa Citizen:
http://tinyurl.com/32r2jq
“Larry O’Brien’s executive assistant resigned on Wednesday, hours after impersonating a citizen caller to a radio call-in show voicing support for a policy [the $50 snow-clearing levy] the mayor supports. (…) Mr. O’Brien said he had briefly talked with [Mr. Gibbons, his exec assistant and personal friend] and he had already ‘fallen on his sword’ to accept responsibility for the incident.
LOL!!
Poor Larry — his grasp of English idiomatic expressions is almost as impressive as his grasp of zero-based budgeting. “Falling on one’s sword” is a reference to the age-old tradition of hari-kiri, i.e., committing suicide rather than facing dishonour. The modern interpretation of the expression has a “take-one-for-the-team” connotation, i.e., one individual takes the rap for the actions of a group.
And what group would that be in this case, Larry?
When’s the next civic election again?
In my Little Village I’m 55 minutes from downtown Ottawa, my sister lives near the Ottawa Civic Hospital… her apartment is half the size of mine, but she pays 2.5 times my rent. My friends just finished renovating a three bedroom, 150-year old, two-storey red brick house right in the middle of my Little Village… it’s for sale for less than $200k (http://www.39unionstreet.blogspot.com/). If you were living there last year your taxes would have hit $826.51, and your street would have been cleared almost immediately after a storm finished. You’d also be about an hour from downtown Montreal… which, as cool as Ottawa is, is way freaking cooler than Ottawa.
There is a large and growing population in this Village of people moving here to commute to Montreal and Hudson… and there’s a new direct highway link to Gatineau being built just across the river. There’s even a smaller but also growing population of people from Ottawa moving here. We’ve got a beautiful piece of the planet here but most of them are doing it because they’re saving on the costs and insanity of city politics, while not losing much of the convenience of the city.
Just saying.
This is all that City Council comes up – tax increases to cover the lack of forward thinking/management…. I have not seen any job reductions in the city, I’m sure we can get rid of a few middle managers and such (how about a 5% reduction)…
No balls from City Councillors once again….. Maybe we should realize we can’t afford all the services we currently have and cut a few….
We all had high hopes for Larry, but actions speak louder than words, so far I have not seen any action except the increase in taxes….
I read an update on the tax issue in today’s paper. Apparently the city is not allowed to charge a flat fee but must raise the taxes by a percentage. Apparently the $50 increase was an average of a 2% increase.
“… said the mayor’s plan would see an extra two per cent tacked on to this year’s property tax bill, which would mean $50 more for a residence with an average value when compared to the rest of the city. This would be on top of the already projected 4.9-per-cent increase.
So as with other property taxes, owners of expensive homes would pay more than those with less inexpensive homes. Commercial and other property-tax payers would pay, too.”
Whole story at:
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=8798156a-c871-4f0a-b223-7e30aa6c90e3&k=27483
I would GLADLY pay the $50 snow tax this year if I felt that I had adeqaute snow removal services this year!
The new development in whicj I live in does not have very good snow removal from the city of Ottawa or my condo corp (another rant for another day). The corner on which I live has snow banks so high that you have to be in the middle of the street just to see if you can continue to turn the corner. This has resulted in some near accidents. The sidewalks were not cleared very well, all I can say is THANK GOD I am not disabled!! If I was disabled I would NOT have been able to make my way to my front door for all the snow that was left for days on end on the CITY OWENED sidewalk. So if Mayor Larry O’Brian wants to charge me, then perhaps he should come and shovel the sidewalks and clear the snowbanks around the corner of my place!
Dear Larry.. take a look in AVALON in Orleans and see just how wonderful of a snow clearing job was done NOT!!! So If I feel taxed to the limit I am. Oh.. not to mention that we are the highest taxed province in Canada as it is.
Wow, the only post I ever wrote that got more comments than this one was What’s Your Pet’s Name?
I’m going to say that my readership weighed in at 38 to 0 against Mayor Larry’s Snow Tax. (Of course “Tom” hasn’t put his two cents in yet.)
Happy Spring lol
Is there a side walk in the residential areas of Ottawa that isn’t all ice ? Growing up the ole Bombedier plows did a better job, the operators were more self contcious, and the service was just generally better. No three days waiting for the sidewalk to be done.. Try walking with an 89 yr old blind woman…her walker is just useless with all the bumps and holes, so she has to walk with her cane (as long as there is an escort). To her it there is no security in trying to walk, must feel like an icy moon surface. Even with the running commentary about bumps and holes coming up, imagine what she must anticipate. It is just easier and safer to walk on the roads. For an extra $50… Larry come take her for a walk !
Nick, yeah, any sidewalks that weren’t properly cleared before the rain are a treacherous disaster now. I’m having a very hard time walking on them and I’m half her age with good vision. I can only imagine how helpless people feel if they’re frail, unsteady, vision-impaired or in wheelchairs.
Hi Zoom…
Yeah, even hard for us ! Wheelchairs must be exhausting work… and not like the seats are built for that kind of terrain. I can’t imagine what it is like trying to get over the humps that seem to be at every corner. Guess it is easy for us to complain, but we have it a lot easier than those with difficulty to walk. Made me wonder how many elderly people have just stayed inside for the past month out of the fear of breaking a hip etc. I guess if you put some thought to it… the list would would be endless….
[…] a couple of years ago when Mayor Larry came up with the ridiculous idea of charging us all a $50 snow tax because it snowed a lot that year. Never mind that he’d squandered the budget surplus on his […]