Over the past couple of days, thousands of people have visited this blog to read about the Bank Street Bully, and many of you subsequently blogged about it on your own blogs. It has generated a lot of discussion, both on this blog and others.
Apparently a number of you also contacted the Ottawa Police to demand an investigation.
In case you missed Comment #91 in response to the original post, here it is again:
I work as the officer in charge of the Professional Standards Section at the Ottawa Police Service and am currently reviewing this matter at the request of Chief Vern White.
The Service recognizes that there are specific concerns raised here about the conduct of Ottawa Police officers. For everyone’s information, the police service takes any allegation of this type very seriously and encourages anyone with such a concern to visit our site at:
http://www.ottawapolice.ca/en/serving_ottawa/compliment_complaint/complaint.cfmor to contact our Professional Standards Section at (613) 236-1222 ext 5830 to speak with an investigator, or to obtain more information on the process.
In order to comply with due process in matters such as this one, we do not comment on specific cases until any investigation is concluded and a decision is reached about the possible laying of any charges under the Ontario Police Services Act.
If you have any further questions or comments, please direct them to info@ottawapolice.ca . Your concern will then be forwarded to me or to the appropriate person responsible within the police service.
Should you have been a witness to this incident, please contact the Professional Standards Section as your assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Denis Cléroux
Professional Standards Section
Staff Sergeant
Central Division centrale
Ottawa Police
And here’s a link to this morning’s Ottawa Citizen article, “Police Wanted Photos Erased, Blogger Claims.” (Hat tip to my friend Gilles who was up reading newspapers at the crack of dawn.)
Many thanks to all of you who helped keep this on the front burner over the last few days. I very much hope that the ‘review’ ordered by Police Chief Vern White will be genuine and fair, and not just a token attempt to appease public outrage. Time will tell.
TAGS:
Zoom, do we have any word on the condition of the young woman who was taken down on the street? Does anyone know whether or how we can get that information? I’m still curious to know why the police went after her — surely not just because she was smoking a cigarette?
You’re the best, Zoom. There are few things worse than a cop who abuses his powers.
Skdadl, I’ve heard that she is okay. I’m not at liberty to say more than that, or to say where I heard it from.
I don’t know why they went after her. Although Ottawa has been getting pretty tough on smokers lately, I’m pretty sure it wasn’t because she was smoking a cigarette. 😉
My guess (and it’s purely a guess) is that it wasn’t a random thing. I think it’s likely that the police had their reasons for apprehending her, although from what I heard, it had nothing to do with what she was doing at the moment they approached her.
However, even if she was known to them as a criminal, it doesn’t give them the right to use excessive force on her. It doesn’t give them the right to attempt to intimidate bystanders into destroying possible evidence. And it doesn’t give them the right to treat lower-income citizens (eg non-property-owners) as second-class citizens.
Zoom even if nothing concrete comes from this never doubt that the very fact of the exercise warns everyone that they should behave better. Often in life you win the fights you don’t even know you are in. The next citizen with a camera is probably safer because of what you did. Thank you.
As far as I’m concerned, you’ve already won the Best Blog Post award for next year’s CBA’s. Well done.
Hi Zoom, I’ve been away from the blog world for a bit, so I’m jsut catching up. As a former journalist, I know that you have every right to take those pictures and he has absolutely no standing to make you delete them. What if you WERE a journalist? What ifa camera crew showed up. I have a family member who used to work undercover for the RCMP. He worked vice (biker gangs, drugs) He told me, whenever they did a bust, they got in and got out as soon as the uniforms got there. It meant the uniforms got the credit for the bust (according to the press and the public)but it didn’t compromise his work. The only time I’ve ever seen him in uniform was at special ceremonies. EVER. I say good for you. I stand by the police and the work they do in general, but there are some that are bullies.
I find that most of you bloggers have no idea what you are talking about. No body knows any facts but you like talking out of your rearends! Who knows, maybe Zoom is repeat offender and has a grudge against the police department and doe’s everything to make them look bad, even if it means inventing stories. You never know why the officers would be asked to put the iniforms on for a temporary basis or even what goe’s on.
I think everyone who has big issues with any kind of Police, it’s because they keep breaking laws. If anything, if ever any of you need help, who are you going to call first. The police and they will be more than happy to help you. Even if you do talk garbage about them.
As for the complaint department, it doe’s work, but you need to follow proper steps. Just calling someone and saying what you think isn’t proper. There are steps to follow and they all get investigated. It’s not because some blogger here call Chief White and said you must investigate! that he decided to do so. I find it funny that you people have no clue what you are talking about but insist that you must say something.
You have made us all proud zoom!!! I also found out about the pigeons. They were all run over
Zoom, we love you, and may I say it’s because I know you personally! Don’t mind trolls like “has no clue”. What you reported on earlier was just that – reportage. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the update, zoom! Glad to see your post got the attention it deserves.
The power of the blogosphere. Seriously.
Brava to you, Zoom.
Bandobras : “Often in life you win the fights you don’t even know you are in.”
Well said.
You’re my hero, Zoom!
I do find it amusing however that the Ottawa Citizen article does not actually contain a link to the blog. (Not that I don’t have you bookmarked!)
#7: “If you criticize the cops, it must be because you are a criminal.” A very nice way of automatically exonerating the cops from any wrongdoing – not to mention that this mentality is the logical equivalent of goosestepping your way to a police state. Of course you think the complaints process “works” – about 99% of the time, the police’s version of events is upheld and the complaint is dismissed. Maybe this has something to do with the fact that they investigate themselves.
Dear “You people have no clue”,
A doe is a deer, a female deer. Not sure what a “goe’s” is, but a ray is a drop of golden sun. FYI.
Love,
Dr. Prole
Young man in Victoria hailed as a hero. Finally gets his video back after videoing the death of a man at a Vancouer airport.Man was tazered a few times. No artificial respiration applied.
Comment #7 has gotta be written by a cop.
So, like…um, am I the only one here who uses his real name? Oops. Probably not a good idea. Never mind.
It’s still Canada, right?
Comment #7 was more than likely written by “Mongoose”. She’s a troll. When the Canadian Blog Awards were announced for one of the awards Zoom won, this Mongoose person left a pretty insulting comment about Zoom there as well. The organizers took it down.
Way to go Zoom. What you did took a lot of courage. What the cop did took a lot of ignorance of the laws he’s supposed to be upholding.
And congratulations to Staff Sergeant Cléroux for taking this seriously.
Hee hee… Sorry, but the troll made me laugh.
Comment #& wasn’t written by Mongoose or a cop. I’m a civilian like all of you. But I don’t go “bashing” anyone without getting the full story from both sides.
John, you say 99% of the time, the police version is upheald. Did you just think that ratio up? Or is it written fact anywhere? If it written fact, please show me where you got it, if not, that is exacly what I mean by, not knowing what you are talking about. And Police don’t investigate themselves. They have what’s called “SIU”-Special Investigation Unit- Which consist of ONLY CIVILIANS. A second point that shows most of you talk just for talking.
This world isn’t perfect and the legal system isn’t either. But throwing out information that is either false or not grounded…isn’t much better. Twisting things or stories to make them seem worse…doesn’t do anything. As I was reading the blogs from the begginning, you guys made assumptions and kept with them without even knowing anything! You say she’s Homeless, defensless…how do you even know this?
Zoom herself said she DIDN’T SEE ANY POLICE BRUTALITY,
the cop was rude, big deal. Good on Zoom for holding her ground. The police officer could have been nicer, sure! But how would you like it if someone shuved a camera in your face at any given point? He may have had a bad day…happens to anyone.
Everyone has their own opinion, no problem. But, don’t accuse with no proof or just because you don’t know the story and what you are told angers you. Get all the facts, then talk about it. Fuck this pig and that, makes you sound worse.
My 2 cents.
And for Dr. Pole,
I don’t pay attention to my spelling or grammer on this kind of stuff. I know I should but I don’t. Sorry for the bad spelling!
The cope wasn’t “rude”, he was threatening a citizen who had done nothing wrong. He had no right to be asking Zoom to put her camera away, and certainly not to be demanding she erase her photos, and the reasons he gave were fabricated bullshit.
Quote:
“You can’t take pictures of this,†he said. His tone was aggressive.
I slid my camera back into its case.
“Okay,†I replied.
“Erase it,†he ordered me. Unquote.
He said “this”, you can’t take pictures of “this”. Not “me”. The “me” came later when he needed an excuse. That’s not rudeness. “You can’t take a picture of this… erase it.”
That’s a cop who does not understand the law, or his place in it. None of this thread, or the original, is about the takedown. This is about what happened to Zoom. Everything else is secondary.
You seem to think, yphnc, that because you’re new here that we’re all new here. But we know each other. We know Zoom. Zoom means a great deal to us. We trust Zoom. If she says this is what happened, then this is what happened.
He said “thisâ€, you can’t take pictures of “thisâ€. Not “meâ€. The “me†came later when he needed an excuse. That’s not rudeness. “You can’t take a picture of this… erase it.â€
You people believe that this is EXACLY what was said. wow, you people are sheep.
Remember, always two sides to a story.
And yet you totally dismiss Zoom’s… despite her actually being there and you living under a bridge with the other trolls. You’ve spent about a thousand words now calling my friend a liar, and us ignorant. You want two sides to the story? Fine, Zoom’s side is here and you don’t have one. What else have you got except insults, contempt and a basic ignorance of this blog, Zoom and the rest of us?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
“We know Zoom. Zoom means a great deal to us. We trust Zoom.”
Thank you Gabriel. That means a lot to me.
We all have inherent biases. It’s no secret around here that I am generally sympathetic to the underdog. In this case, the underdog was an unconscious young woman about whom I knew/know virtually nothing. My natural instinct is to feel protective of her. I make no apologies for that.
For what it’s worth, I don’t hate cops. Based on my limited experience, I don’t think Ottawa is a hotbed of police brutality. I think we’ve got a mix of good cops and bad cops, and it would be in the best interests of the citizens AND the police force to get rid of the bad cops.
The irony here is that if that officer had not attempted to intimidate me, and had not been so jaw-droppingly offensive to both me and the young man who calmly said “It’s still Canada,” I might not have blogged about this in the first place. It was his willingness to flaunt the fact that he’s a bad cop that struck me as blogworthy.
I reported this as accurately as I could. I stand by everything I have said. I did not and cannot say for certain that the young woman was the victim of excessive force, because I did not arrive until after she was already unconscious. However, I can say for certain that this particular police officer attempted to intimidate me into destroying potential evidence, and that he betrayed his bias against lower-income citizens with his property tax comments.
From everything I’ve seen, he’s a bad cop and he needs to go.
To Gabriel,
I am sorry for coming on strong about calling Zoom a liar and the rest ignorant. You’re right, zoom was there, but i’m not totally convinced that what she is saying is EXACLY what happened. And she keeps bringing up points like her not knowing who the girl is or anything about police brutality. My complaint was that the moment a picutre is seen by people, they all judge the worst because they hate. Look at this thread, nothing was said about this women but speculation that people brought to the next level, like she is some small inocent girl or homeless, no one knows this but shout it out and saying police are betting her up because of those reasons…that may not be true.
Zoom came back on to clarify what her story is and that she did NOT SEE police brutality or KNOWS the women in any way. So why are people taking this out of porportion?
You say I’m a troll that lives under a bridge, believe me, I know a lot more than you might think. But anyway, I’m sorry for offending you guys, but you got to realise that you need to be carefull of what you read, because not all of it is true.
And yes, there are officers who can be jerks, but how do you think you would feel after dealing with dead beats over and over. It’s very stressfull I’m sure. I was a security guard a few years back and the people I had to deal with just giving out parking tickets was crazy! I can only imagine what officers have to deal with. So I’m defending the Ottawa Police because generally, they’re a very good bunch. And it seems that you guys are bashing them without a second thought.
Just chiming in with my love and trust of Zoom! 😉 Trolls who can’t spell, or form coherent sentences
In reference to Jennifer’s post, re: CBAs, I had actually been thinking EXACTLY the same thing when I was reading your original post, and then the comments that it generated!
EEPS, that post went through at the wrong point in my typing 😛
“Trolls who can’t spell, or form coherent sentences should simply be ignored” was what I had been going to post, however, the OP has posted in between zoom and myself.
Zoom shared both her firsthand information, and also the information she was given by witnesses who had seen what had happened. Yes it’s possible that things went down differently than what was said, but considering the small unconscious woman lying on the street, it seems likely that at least the majority of the statements were true.
Either way, the cop who tried to intimidate zoom into deleting the pictures was clearly a bully, and there’s no excuse for that.
I’ve been away from my Bloglines account for a few days, so I’m just catching up on all this now. Zoom, you’re great. keep up the good work!
Way to go Zoom!
Somehow, Bloglines just caught up on your last 4 posts so I just became aware of it all.
That might just win you next year’s best post award.
I have relatives who are cops. Great guys and I trust them. I have friends who are cops. I’m not sure how some of them made it – the bar must have been lowered over the years. I look like your average middle-class dad. Most of my encounters (saying hello, thanking them for pulling over a speeder) are positive. But there is no doubt some of them do not have the skills/attitude to police in our society – those few bad apples make me wary now because all it takes is for that bad apple to decide you are out of line and your life can change. Most of us don’t have the money to attempt a legal defence for wrongful actions. If I were on the police force, and, I really believed police are there to protect us, then I would actively work to weed out the bad apples…if you don’t, you are slowly allowing your work environment to be poisoned. By the way, thank god for Blogs, because the media doesn’t give this the attention it deserves.
Well, if there is one thing we Bloggers know, it is that Zoom is an honourable, brave and brilliant person… My little self in my big doc martins and frilly tank top curtsy to you, Zoom…
I am dissapointed in how the Officer in this post, allegedly, acted. In general, the men in Blue are admired by me… http://colouredmarbles.blogspot.com/2008/09/i-get-kick-out-of-you.html
I’d like to weigh in on this subject just one more time. Before this thread dies, if it dies, ever. Because perhaps it will live forever. (And if it does, I hope it lives for all the right reasons.)
Regardless. I see two issues here:
1. Whether excessive force was used to detain the woman taken into custody. None of us here witnessed the actual takedown, so that will have to be decided by others.
2. Whether the “bully” officer acted inappropriately by “browbeating” zoom and the young man who stepped forward. My opinion: It seems he did. Now, I had thought of asking zoom, if it were up to her (and it’s clearly not), what punishment she might think suitable for the officer. But apparently she has addressed that with her comment in 25.
While putting aside the first issue, and focusing only on the second, is a police officer in the line of duty not permitted to lose his or her temper, perhaps even browbeat someone? Likely officers are trained to deal with their emotions and conduct with others in situations I shall label “In the heat of the moment.” But does an officer deserve to be summarily dismissed, as in “From everything I’ve seen, he’s a bad cop and he needs to go.”
I don’t know. I’m just asking. But from “everything” zoom saw, likely not.
Does this officer have a history of such conduct, or worse? Is it possible to weigh the good and not so good sides of this officer? You know, balance every good deed against bad? Will that opportunity to balance take place here? Probably not.
Maybe that officer is a super officer, one of the best. Then again, maybe not. On the basis of what zoom has presented to us, the officer was wrong. He made a mistake. Is that because he’s not perfect? Well, none of us are, and besides, it’s not about perfection. It’s about professionals conducting themselves professionally. Right?
How serious was his mistake? Does that have to be taken into consideration? The fact is, he knew he was wrong and he did back down. Even if he had to get the last word in. (Ahem. I’ve been there, done that.)
Likely, zoom and others involved or witness to the events would prefer nothing had happened, that no incident had occurred at all. Leave that sort of drama for the idiot box, right? Boring, yes. But sometimes boring is best.
In the real world, it’s not that big of a deal. Then again, I prefer not to see any crime-fighting, or what precedes it, happen at all.
You know, I gotta go. Back to me sweetheart Big Tracy. She may be a flattop, but her last name is Gibson.
Later.
TO Tom Sawyer:
the response you wrote at #33 has been the best I’ve seen with the most sense in this complete ordeal. My hat is off to you and I hope there are many like you around. Keep Smiling and happy holidays 😀
Tom, I dunno. I understand that people can have bad days and it might bring out the worst in them. But it can’t bring out things that aren’t already there. For example, no matter how bad a day I’m having, I could never suddenly start spewing racist insults at someone. It’s just not in me.
That officer’s bullying behaviour didn’t just pop up out of nowhere on Monday afternoon. He’s used to intimidating people to get what he wants. The things he said about the property taxes? That kind of sneering attitude towards people who live in low income is not the result of a bad day. It’s a mindset.
I don’t think people like that should be given guns and badges and all the power those things hold.
What the officer said about property taxes, as reported by you, zoom, was ridiculous and ludicrous. Plain stupid. Although I wasn’t there, and you were, I am guessing that his comments were made “in the heat of the moment” and it was, consciously or not, his way of getting the last word.
Bad attitude: Absolutely.
Mistake: Absolutely.
Based on what I have read regarding his attitude towards you and the young man who stepped forward, the officer deserves some sort of reprimand. But even more important (whether this particular officer continues working in law enforcement or not), he needs to realize: “Hey, I made a mistake. Maybe I didn’t mean to, but I did. And I had better smarten up. In a good way.” He needs to understand deep down in his heart, soul, and mind that policing is not browbeating innocent bystanders. He needs to accept that his demands and remarks on Monday were entirely inappropriate. An apology would be in order. (Ahh…if only…in a perfect world.)
But when that officer is on the job tonight and gets into a shitty situation with shitty people (not you and your camera, of course), it is possible that an attitude of overbearing authority AND intimidation on his part could be the difference between going home at the end of his shift or lying on a stainless steel tray at the morgue tomorrow moring. Okay, that’s a bit dramatic. But police work is fucking dangerous at times. Sometimes you know when it’s going to blow up, and sometimes it just comes out of nowhere. I know. I’ve seen it on TV.
As for being “given guns and badges,” I am guessing there is plenty of screening and training conducted, the likes of which would make our collective heads spin, before they are given any power.
The way that officer acted was one of “power-tripping.” He is an authority figure and he wanted to control the situation–even beyond his rightful jurisdiction. I have seen it before with police officers. And there’s NO excuse for it. Yet, dammit, there is. There IS an excuse. And that excuse is real and that excuse is legitimate. At times. Because that whole human mechanism of machismo and braggadocio, of the adrenalin rush preparing for fight or flight, of all those resources required to maintain the survival of the fittest is at work, whether crime-fighting is involved or just crime. Perhaps it is what drives some of us to be heroes one day and heels the next.
I know it’s still an excuse. But, on a positive note, likely there’s a solution.
Oh. And I commend you without reserve for how you acted, reacted, and reported this incident. What you did was right. You know it and everyone here seems to know it.
You’re still my hero.
Now, what about music and guitars.
zoom, you rule.
“Ottawa police Chief Vern White has ordered a review after a blogger alleged being ordered by an officer to stop taking photographs of an arrest in Centretown.”
Well good that someone is looking into the problematic response to you taking photos, but the excessive force that the officers appear to have used isn’t an issue?
Foundling, I don’t know the scope of the review. I hope it covers all aspects of what happened at the corner of Bank and MacLaren that day.
What a story. It is so very different in small towns. We know and work with those on the force, or know someone who does, or live near someone who does. We know their names and their reputations. Most of our OPP do a phenomenal job.
This officer is not representative of all police officers. Let us hope you can make a difference in the life of the victim and the officer to improve delivery of protective services.
I agree with Tom Sawyer: focus on what zoom saw and heard. We ALL have a bad day and there are bad apples in every profession. You have guts, zoom, and I laud that.
Quite a story.
The Ottawa Police Major Crime Squad tried to frame me for the “murder” of Marcel Vanasse. In fact it was I who’d called the ambulance for Vanasse – he’d died from a drug overdose just as I’d reported when I phoned 911. The Ottawa police had a pathologist , Dr. Johnston, who according to many lawyers was merely a “puppet” for the police. He’d “accidentally” cut the very bones & cartilage that would be damaged had he truly been strangled. Anyhow, the charges were eventually dropped & Johnston was removed from his job. This is just more evidence of of the tactics this police force uses.
This guy Post works with another “of his kind”, Rob Stocky…they’re 2 peas in a pod. I’ve been constantly harrassed since suing the Ottawa Police for trying to frame me for an imaginary “murder” Stocky & Post are around Bell/Galdstone area alot – I could go on & on about the crap these guys get away with…..seems many,many people already know…..Good for you for publishing this story!