I love being on holidays. It’s giving me time to get around to all kinds of things that most of you probably do all the time: grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning, researching hot water options.
My house is gas heated. My water, however, comes from a rented electric hot water tank. I used to rent it from Ozz but I didn’t know that until I got a letter from a company called Reliance saying they bought Ozz. I thought I rented it from Ottawa Hydro, since that’s who bills me for it, but apparently not.
The letter from Reliance basically said Hi, welcome to Reliance, we’re raising your rates, our privacy policy allows us to share all your personal information with anybody we want, and if you want to stop being our customer it’ll cost you $165.
Anyway. I want to switch to a gas water heater because it’s more energy efficient. But then I was talking to a friend who told me about tankless gas water heaters. These things are supposedly very energy-efficient. They heat water instantly as you need it, rather than creating and storing a tankful of heated water and keeping it hot all the time.
I think this is what I want.
But I was just looking on Reliance’s website and they don’t seem to have this option for residential customers. As a matter of fact, they kind of denigrate the whole idea of tankless heaters:
“Tankless water heaters were designed to service hot water needs in a designated area, supplying only one main hot water source (e.g. kitchen). So if your home is fairly large and must accommodate several people, a tankless water heater won’t necessarily service your needs adequately. A tankless water heater provides hot water at a rate of 2-4 gallons per minute–this will not service hot water to more than one area at a time and you may need several units to meet your needs. These tanks have been used in Europe where energy costs are much higher and water usage is generally much lower. “
So. I guess what I’m wondering is, do any of you have a tankless gas water heater, and if so, are you happy with it? If you rent it, who do you rent it from? Any information or advice about water heaters generally would be greatly appreciated. (Everything I know about hot water heaters, I learned today.)
We have a gas hot water heater, rented, which we like. However, we SO WANT one of those new heaters. Mike Holmes of “Holmes (s or no s, can’t remember) on Homes” really, really believes in them. We’re read up and that’s what we want. Happy shopping!
My inlaws have a tankless water heater and they love it. They have a large four-story, century-old house in Washington, DC. and they haven’t complained about a lack of hot water in their home (indeed we’ve stayed there before and after it was installed and we didn’t notice a difference). They rent out their basement and that tenant shares the water heater with them without a problem.
Reliance’s stat on 2-4 gallons per minute is for a lesser model and there are options for you to choose from.
Keep us posted!
So google it and then talk to techs. I bet you have already. I’ve been impressed with the descriptions and could be interested if we change again. So far we have continued to rent because when the tank goes, or even starts to go, they change it. Granted you pay more in the long run, but it’s spread out and doesn’t hurt.
We switched to gas heating and hot water several years ago, and we’ve since switched to gas cooking. I’d flirted with the idea of tankless hot water, but they were way too expensive (and they still are, IMHO, overpriced). My only personal experience with them was during a trip to England, and I couldn’t wait to get back for a *real* shower to finally rinse the frikkin’ shampoo out of my hair.
My suggestion: Go with gas. Also, when it’s time to change your range, consider a gas replacement – then, when the next blackout occurs, you could still warm your house, cook a meal AND take a hot shower to boot.
(Of course, by then, the gas company will have jacked up the prices accordingly…)
[BUT if the price of the tankless single electric unit drops to within reason, like $75, we might consider installing one for the bathroom sink — it takes a full 30 seconds to get hot water in there, and we wash our hands there frequently during a regular day. That would make it worthwhile for us.]
BTW – Happy New Year!
Gilles
Shoot, we just had a discussion about this on this email group to which I belong but I deleted all the emails. They used to have crappy little ones in England when I was there in the 70s but I understand the new tankless heaters are much more efficient, although I have no personal experience with them. I would consider buying one, not renting it. We have always rented our (giant conventional) hot water heater from Enbridge, as it came with the house and was gas fired. Then, right at its expiry date of 20 years, the bottom cracked and we had 40 gallons of water in the basement – a pain, I can tell you. Because we rented it, they came and gave us a new one (although we had to clean up the mess) and so we are still renting. But why rent if you can own, especially as it will be new and have a warranty anyway? As a bit of a greenie, I like the idea of the tankless heater.
Here are some links if you Google:
http://www.tanklesswaterheaterguide.com/
http://www.tanklesswaterheaters.com/
and one from Toronto: http://www.irvingsplumbing.com/tankless.htm
I have 5 tankless units installed at my home, office and rentals – they can work well but there can be a LOT of installation issues, I’ve put up a page about my experiences at:
http://www.paragoninspects.com/home-inspection-tankless-water-heater-installation-problems-faq.html
These are excellent comments, very helpful! Thanks very much to all of you. I’m going to go read the links now.
Gilles, your comments suggest that the tankless heater doesn’t provide the same water pressure…is that true? How long ago was that trip to England? (I’m wondering if the technology has evolved much since then…)
Apparently the tankless heaters have a much longer lifespan than the traditional heaters, because they’re not nearly as subject to corrosion (since they’re not holding water). But purchase and installation costs can be significantly higher than traditional tanks.
The research continues!
England? 1987.
OK, *maybe* technology’s evolved in the past 20 years, and *maybe* the B&B operators used flow restrictors in the shower heads way back then. But after reading the Michael Thomas FAQ and the two PDF links on that page, I’m even more convinced that tankless is still a ways down the road.
The white paper from AO does mention that users face “potential need for lifestyle changes to accommodate the limited flow rate output of tankless water heaters.”
Eh?
More cons:
Up to $2700 for the typical “full” household installation, gas meter and piping issues, water supply issues, venting issues, dearth of qualified installers for the new technology, avg. 18.75-year payback (from the PDF). Also, both the gas & electric models require electricity, so you’re SOL for hot water when Hydro’s down. Also, the size of unit (re. BTU production) increases (as does the operating cost) the further North you are, because the incoming water is colder, thus requiring more power to heat it. Also, if you have a full-house (i.e., central) hot water heating setup, the taps that are furthest from the unit will still waste energy because it takes awhile to spit out hot water.
When fed/prov govts decide get serious about energy conservation and provide meaningful $ incentives to householders, say a payback of under 10 years, the tankless water heating systems will be a good investment.
Tankless hot water is the default here in the UK. Usually it’s provided by the same gas boiler that provides the central heating. You’ll get hot water quicker the closer the taps are to the boiler.
We’re happy with our setup; we get very hot water at a good pressure no matter where we are in the house.
Over here they’re called combi boilers.
I also did some research on this when I was living aboard my boat in South Carolina. I had a small 5-gallon hot water tank that would provide enough water for a quick shower, but I was always wanting a little more on cold (relative term) winter mornings.
The specs were about rise and flow. Rise was the number of degrees you need to raise the temperature from cold; flow was gallons or litres per minute.
Turned out not to be the right choice for me.
Instead I was going to go for a larger and better-insulated hot water tank, but I never got around to it and now never will.
Perhaps you should consider that option – a better-insulated hot water tank. Also calculate how large a tank you need. Do you regularly run out of hot water when showering etc? If not you could probably get by with a smaller tank.
Smab
I don’t want to give people the wrong impression: I’ve very happy with my tankless heaters. I just want potential buyers understand that this is often not a “plug-and-play” replacement process.
Size and install a tankless WH properly and it WILL do the job, I have a commercial Takagi Mobius T-M1:
http://www.tanklesswaterheatersdirect.com/shop/tanklesswaterheaters/takagi/takagitm1main.asp
installed at my house, it will run two showers, a dishwasher and a washer at the same time without difficulty.
Just don’t expect a 165K BTU unit to do the same.
My place is only 1100 square feet and wouldn’t have many competing demands on hot water. The only hot water sources are the washing machine (but I usually use cold water), the kitchen sink, two bathroom sinks and the shower/tub.
Smab, I have a 40 gallon tank and I don’t run out of hot water. But I do want to switch from electric to either gas or tankless gas, whichever makes the most sense financially and otherwise.
Michael, what do you think about the pricing of the tankless systems? Are they coming down in price? If I get one now, will I be paying a premium for buying in too early? Gilles brings up an interesting point about how cold Canadian water is in the winter. If it’s coming into the house at 40F, are these units capable of heating it sufficiently for normal household use? Or will I only have warm water in the winter, not hot?
I really appreciate all the input on this subject, by the way. There’s all kinds of stuff here I hadn’t thought of.